H50 Meta Questions
Jan. 17th, 2012 12:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Okay. I’m trying to wrap my head around some of the H50 meta because I think I’m missing an obvious piece of info and I know you lovely people will encapsulate it for me and I’ll go ‘doh’!
Question(s) Under the cut. Spoilers through 2x14.
Why did Joe fake Hiro’s death? I know it is because Wo Fat wants him dead, but why?
I ‘think’ it is because Wo Fat is just trying to get rid of loose ends, right? But why does Joe care if he dies?
Which leads to my biggest question---Wasn’t Hiro the person responsible for Steve’s mother’s death? He had his brother (Koji) put the bomb on the car that killed his mom although it was meant for Jack. Right?
Because if Hiro Was responsible. Shouldn’t Steve be furious that Joe helped him?
Or did I miss the part where we were told that Hiro wasn’t responsible for Steve’s mother’s death. And if so, who is? Because Wo Fat would have been what in his 30’s at that time and wasn’t he still with the Chinese military?
Or should I just stop right now?
After getting over the whole Shelburne thing, I realized I really liked last night’s eppy.
Thank you!! *blows kisses*
Question(s) Under the cut. Spoilers through 2x14.
Why did Joe fake Hiro’s death? I know it is because Wo Fat wants him dead, but why?
I ‘think’ it is because Wo Fat is just trying to get rid of loose ends, right? But why does Joe care if he dies?
Which leads to my biggest question---Wasn’t Hiro the person responsible for Steve’s mother’s death? He had his brother (Koji) put the bomb on the car that killed his mom although it was meant for Jack. Right?
Because if Hiro Was responsible. Shouldn’t Steve be furious that Joe helped him?
Or did I miss the part where we were told that Hiro wasn’t responsible for Steve’s mother’s death. And if so, who is? Because Wo Fat would have been what in his 30’s at that time and wasn’t he still with the Chinese military?
Or should I just stop right now?
After getting over the whole Shelburne thing, I realized I really liked last night’s eppy.
Thank you!! *blows kisses*
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Date: 2012-01-17 05:07 pm (UTC)My only guess is, yes, Steve knows that Hiro told his brother to put the bomb on the car. But, I had been assuming all along that Wo Fat ultimately had ordered Hiro to do that, but what you just said makes sense. I'm still foggy on when Wo Fat gets involved and what the Governor was involved in and how Steve's dad fits into it all.
I actually didn't enjoy last night's episode. I was rather let down at the "big reveal" at the end. Did I miss something, or has it been told who Joe was talking to at the end of a previous episode? ("We need to move you...") He wasn't talking to Hiro in the trunk, was he?
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:38 pm (UTC)The reveal was a let down and for a little while I let it overshadow how much I enjoyed the rest of the eppy.
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Date: 2012-01-18 02:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 05:44 pm (UTC)But I think Joe's helping him because Hiro's a potential witness against Wo Fat. You know, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Wo Fat is tying up loose ends, yes, although it remains unclear how much power Wo Fat still has (I'd say, a lot.)
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:45 pm (UTC)ETA OMG at your icon. *stares*
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:49 pm (UTC)But if were to find out..well let's just say my fanfic brain might go wild over that plot bunny :-P
That icon is the best! I love all that it implies with a *shudder*
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:55 pm (UTC)It is rather gorgeous.
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:40 pm (UTC)Thank you!
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Date: 2012-01-17 05:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:42 pm (UTC):-P
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:05 pm (UTC)But... if I stick by my original theory that Shelburne is Steve's mom and she didn't die in the car bomb, then that explains why Joe is helping Hiro... because Hiro/Koji would have helped to fake Steve's mom's death... for whatever reason.
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:44 pm (UTC)That's a really good theory and one that seems toe fit the most wiht my mind. *nods*
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:08 pm (UTC)However, I stand by my original posit that Steve's father isn't really dead. Um - has that been proven yet?
*sneaks off to download the eps)
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 07:12 pm (UTC)Stranger things have happened.
*g*
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:16 pm (UTC)I had some plot possibilities worked out in my head, too, and this didn't quite jive with my speculation. Unless Joe is lying to put Steve off the trail in which case speculation is still open. But that still doesn't explain Steve's acceptance of this.
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:52 pm (UTC)*shrugs*
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:18 pm (UTC)1. Wo Fat is tying up loose ends.
2. Hiro worked with Wo Fat, has information on him, ordered Koji to kill Steve's father, and is now a loose end himself.
3. By hiding Hiro, Joe has living evidence of Wo Fat's connection to the murder of Steve's mother and Steve's father.
4. The Governor was a loose end. She was working with Hiro, and with Wo Fat, to keep Steve where Wo Fat could find him and get information about "Shelbourne." (Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.) By killing her, Wo Fat tied off that loose end and set up Steve for her murder.
5. "Shelbourne" was the alias Jack and Joe used to distract Wo Fat. Jack gave that alias to Wo Fat and the Governor during his "official" investigation of the Yakuza.
6. "Shelbourne" killed Wo Fat's father, who worked with the Yakuza. Joe claims he was using the alias when he killed the elder Wo.
7. Since Wo Fat is still looking for "Shelbourne" for revenge -- and is afraid of him for the information he supposedly has concerning Wo Fat's activities with the Yakuza -- I believe Mrs. McGarrett's death has nothing to do with "Shelbourne." Jack McGarrett was targeted due to his continued investigation of the Yakuza and the fact that he had connected Hiro to Wo Fat (and possibly Wo Senior).
Questions: Was Wo Fat involved with the Yakuza before or after his father's death? How long was he in the Chinese Army?
Speculation 1: I think Wo Fat came into the Yakuza before his father was killed. It takes time to build trust in any organization, let alone organized crime. Wo Fat would have to build his own reputation; nepotism only goes so far, especially if your sponsor is dead. Ergo, his father was alive long enough for Wo Fat to make his bones.
Speculation 2: While both Joe and Jack used "Shelbourne" as a decoy, Joe stated clearly that he promised to protect Steve and his sister. He even went so far as to protect Hiro's son, Adam. By lying to him. That simple, anti-climactic announcement of the "Shelbourne" alias and its purpose, after Joe fought so hard to keep Steve out of the loop, reeks of a bald-faced lie. Either Jack killed Wo Fat's father, or Joe knows "Shelbourne" is a real person and is trying to find him and/or protect him, or Joe doesn't know who "Shelbourne" is any more than anyone else and is trying to find him before Wo Fat does.
How's them apples?
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Date: 2012-01-17 07:01 pm (UTC)I can't decide which speculation I side because are both are plausible and interesting.
I'm just glad I wasn't the only person someone baffled by a few of these dangling plot threads :-P
Thanks for the bullet points!
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Date: 2012-01-17 09:40 pm (UTC)The most he had done at the time of her murder was the official investigation into the Yakuza in Hawaii. Everything else came after that: the camera in the governor's office, the "Shelbourne" info, the items in the toolbox, all of it. That was all Jack's private investigation, sanctioned by the Governor.
Mrs. McGarrett's murder was supposed to stop Jack.
So why would he retire? Everyone said he was a "good" cop. Chin says he was a good cop. Send his kids away, maybe. But retire?
Not unless he no longer saw himself as a "good" cop.
I think Jack got his hands dirty by killing Wo Senior in revenge for killing his wife. "Good" cops don't do that. So he retired.
Joe knows good cops don't do that. But as a Navy SEAL, he's prepared to take the heat for his friend and give Steve some closure.
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and Steve to say, "Wait, that was too easy."
And re: Mrs. McGarrett still being alive? We saw what happened to the Governor's assistant. Steve's mother was killed the same way. Either another body was put in her place or she's very dead. Pick one. But if another body was there, why? And why the hell would a Hawaiian housewife kill a member of the Yakuza? And how? You'd have to come up with something reasonable to sell me on the idea that Mrs. McGarrett was some kind of secret agent/ninja assassin willing to abandon her family just to kill one man.
Either that or Wo Senior made a heavy pass at her, she accidentally killed him, and Hiro and Joe faked her death to protect Jack and the kids. Which leads to Joe returning the favor.
OMG, that's just ridiculous enough to make sense.
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:23 pm (UTC)Or else, the writers really are clueless idiots that can't write their way out of a paper bag. *head/desk*
I loved the Danny/Steve, Danny/Rachel, Sang Min/Kamekona stuff immensely!
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Date: 2012-01-17 07:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 06:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 07:04 pm (UTC)I do love the characters and the pretty and hand wave a lot. But my brain wouldn't let me on the whole Steve Shakespearean Tragedy they've got going :-P
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Date: 2012-01-17 06:32 pm (UTC)But oh well. Danny was such a sweetheart in this episode, and I loved Kamekona's bodyguard role. Is there not a new episode next week or something? I missed the preview...
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Date: 2012-01-17 07:05 pm (UTC)I love SHOW. It just left me a little confused ha!
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Date: 2012-01-17 07:21 pm (UTC)I have nothing to add, but it's an interesting read. ;)
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Date: 2012-01-18 01:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-17 07:50 pm (UTC)I'm too caught up in the epic love story of Steve and Danny to be able to keep track of all this Wo Fat business. :D
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Date: 2012-01-17 10:28 pm (UTC)I can't see Mrs McGarrett being involved. Would she stay away from her kids this long without trying to make any kind of contact, even if it had to be in secret. I know I coudln't stay away from mine.
Anyway enjoying the intrigue and hoping Joe will be back soon. I love his relationship with Steve and it will be gold if Wo Fat finds out who killed his papa. He knows how close Steve is to Joe, so pretty sure Steve will be used in his payback. Aw poor Steve, he can't catch a break.
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Date: 2012-01-18 01:55 am (UTC)I think Joe said whatever he could to get Steve to back off. And yes. One of the reasons for asking these questions was I was really puzzled at the lack of Steve's anger regarding Joe hiding Hiro given that Steve still thinks he is responsible for his mother's death.
I liked Joe. He was over used a bit, but I did enjoy his relationship with Steve.
And yes. My first thought about the whole Joe killed Wo Fats dad was...eeek. With the father son dynamic, Wo Fat's payback could be pretty evil. Steve watch out!
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Date: 2012-01-17 10:34 pm (UTC)I am just going to enjoy the parts that make sense and try not to lose my one remaining marble figuring out the parts that don't.
That being said? I liked the ep just fine even though I completely forgot what the case was... before the ep was over :D
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Date: 2012-01-18 01:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-18 01:23 am (UTC)thank you for this great thread with so many well thought out possibilities-
seems like despite this being the 'big reveal' ep for Shelburne- most folks agree there's lots more to come.
I'm just a little scared that when it finally comes-the whole story won' t be was good as some of the guesses here!
oh and I giggled,
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Date: 2012-01-18 01:58 am (UTC)Hee yeah. I doubt the real reason won't live up to some of the stuff here!
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Date: 2012-01-18 02:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-18 06:30 am (UTC)But, I'm just stuck on that one episode where Joes on the phone telling someone they need to move Shelbourne.
A) Do double agent/whatever Joe is claiming to be really do that? Refer to themselves in third person.
B) I'm not an expert in time progression and it maybe real life time deluding 5 0 time, but hasn't it been a couple of weeks? Who moves so slowly?
B may also be related to in plain sight, Netflix, and what may or may not have been a marathon and with them it's like a day max before people are moved.
So I'm sticking to the stuffed animal theory, bonuses involve thinking this when I see him (wo fat) in other roles.